s/v Ariel, Cape Dory 36: March 2006

Solenoid installed

I received the solenoid from Transatlantic Diesels on Friday and installed it today. Things went together just fine. The only difference in the new solenoid is that the replacement spring is a bit shorter than the original. I don't know enough about solenoids to know whether or not this will create any problems. Hopefully not.

Interestingly, the solenoid is the same as that used on various Chevy trucks and cars from the 60s-80s. Chances are I could have gotten the same part through Napa or another auto parts store if I'd known what I was looking for.

Those holding tank blues

Two hours, five sheets of foam board, and still no lovin'. I'm not sure how Randy ended up with a perfect fit for tank #B115 in his CD36 because it wasn't even close in Ariel.

The tank sits a good 2" higher than the bunk boards, so there's no way that tank will work either. The only thing I can think is that Randy's CD36 doesn't have the fiberglass bed bonded to the hull like Ariel.

The bed is somewhat visible in this photo.
The new plan is to cut my mock up of #B486 down to 16 1/2" deep (tall), do a trial fit, and if things look good I'll call Ronco Plastics and ask them if it's possible to modify the mold enough to meet my depth requirement. If not...well, I'm not sure.

Jake had fun anyway!
**3.28.06** I called Ronco Plastics today and asked if it is possible to modify the mold. I was told that their tanks are seamless and any modification would require a seam, thus voiding any warranty that they would typically offer. Furthermore, the representative told me that the seam would sooner or later result in a leak. So much for that idea. When I inquired about the cost for a new mold and tank, he said that set up would run about 500 dollars plus the tank price, approx. 200. Ouch. He then suggested that I call Kracor, the original manufacturer of the the CD36 tank, to find out what they could offer. Kracor will manufacture the tank for 485.69 + s/h and a 3 week wait - 200 for the setup and 285 for the tank. I was told that I might be able to get the tank through Lewis Marine for less money. That would involve a 6 week wait, if they will even deal with an individual and not a reseller. I'll give them a call tomorrow.
So, any CD36 owners out there interested in splitting the set up cost for a run of holding tanks?
** 4.5.06 **
I realize this method of updating the blog is a bit odd, but I'd much rather have related information together than simply the most recent development at the top of the entries.
I cut my mock up of #B486 down to 16 1/2" so I could get it into the forward cabin for a test fit. I also created a spacer that I could place under the bottom of the tank once it was in the forward cabin to bring the tank's depth back to the designed 17 5/8", the idea being that, if things fit, it might be worth the trouble of removing the trim around the doorway into the forward cabin to get the Ronco tank in there. Well, with slight modifications to the glassed in fiberglass bed, the tank will certainly fit. This will involve cutting the bed loose from the hull, trimming some material from it, then glassing it back in place. I was hoping to avoid doing so much work to get a functional holding tank in there, but there are some advantages: the Ronco tank is virtually identical to the original tank which means equal capacity and the ability to reuse the original fiberglass bed, just slightly lowered; 2) While I'm doing the fiberglass work, I'll make the v-berth bulkhead watertight and install a small bilge pump to deal with any green water that gets shipped over the bow during heavy weather. Last summer we had to deal with water in the bin located in the notch of the vee, so it wouldn't be a bad idea to seal off that area.

A tight fit with the fiberglass bed in the original location.

The fiberglass bed, attached only at the upper sides where the bond is visible.

Spoke too soon

It turns out that the potential "deal breaker" issue with tank #B486 was just that, a total deal breaking bummer. And it wasn't because the tank wouldn't fit under the v-berth - I didn't even get that far! The tank's depth of 17 5/8" is about 3/4" - 1" too big to even make it into the forward cabin. It was quickly apparent that there was no way the tank would fit through the doorway, no matter how much coaxing or manuevering I tried.

So, the tank that is virtually identical to Ariel's original tank just won't cut it. Too bad. Tomorrow I'll rustle up some more material to make a mock up of tank #B115, the tank Randy Palmer used on his 36.
I received a reply from Randy today. Here's what he said about the tank.
It's a Ronco Plastics B115 H.D. 25 Gal. You can mention my name if you like. It sets about 4-5" forward of the "bulkhead" that supports the v-berth. It fit right in. I used an elbow for the input line (I had them put it on the center line) and the vent and suction lines are centered forward like the CD30's are. Because the boat tends to be a bit heavy on the stern I asked if the would run an internal suction line toward the aft end of the tank. They bent a PVC pipe to do the job (no charge) and it looks like it should work. Normally a suction line comes in from the top but there is only about an inch and a half clearance under the [V-berth] plywood to the top of the tank. If you have any questions you might look up the dimensions on their site and make some cut outs in cardboard. That's what I did and was confident that it would fit. It fit even better than I expected.
We used the tank for 10 days last summer when we went to Isle Royale and it worked great. Pump out seemed fine, too. It is like it was made for the boat (1978-82 models, I assume). The Ronco is heavier than the Kracors and cheaper. I give them two thumbs up.

More filth

Let's hear it for the Concrete Sequentials! Since I'm not much of an Abstract Random and would much rather see and touch, I decided that the only way to figure out this holding tank issue was to make a mock-up of the Ronco Plastics tank #B486. I also decided that if I was going to spend the time making the thing that I would make it well, so I bought some foam board and fresh exacto blades and began.
Well, here it is, Ronco Plastics tank #B486:

(note: the tank is sitting on its aft end with the bottom facing the lower-right corner of the frame)
I have yet to take the mock-up to the boat to see how it fits (Jake is napping), but a side-by-side comparison with the original tank bodes well.

I'll run over to the boat when Jake wakes up and give her a trial fit.
*I guess I should have mentioned earlier that the differences between the original tank and B486 are nominal. The only major difference, and a possible deal breaker, is the height of the Ronco tank. At 17 5/8", it is a little over an inch higher than the stock tank. That may not pose a problem, but the space under the v-berth bunk boards is rather tight. Furthermore, I discovered upon removal of the old tank that it's a tight squeeze between the forward cabin and the saloon.

Dirty Pictures

You think your life is crappy!? Try being this guy for 27 years. He may not have dealt directly with the butts, but he certainly had to put up with their crap! (Sorry, I had to tone down the language. This is a family site after all) I don't blame the poor fella for packing it in (retiring, that is). Now that it's time to find his replacement, I'm learning that even a holding tank is a complicated and beautiful thing. The myriad shapes, sizes, configurations are downright baffling.
Here's what I've learned (don't expect too much):
1) Patrick Turner, owner of Salt Shaker, a '79 CD36, used Ronco Plastics tank #B126. He also made some significant modifications to his v-berth area to accomodate the new beast. I'm in no mood to grind, glass, or otherwise modify Ariel.

2) Randy Palmer, another CD36er, chose Ronco Plastics tank #B115 and said that it was a perfect fit. The dimensions in the Ronco catalog seem to indicate that the tank will fit just fine, although the dimensions are different than the original. I've emailed Randy and asked him to tell me a bit more about the installation and fit.

3) I discovered another tank in the Ronco catalog, tank #B486, that is nearly identical to the original tank. Now I'm wondering if maybe that's the tank I'm after. Choices, choices. Randy's tank holds 25 gallons, while this one only holds 18. I'm not particularly interested in holding more waste than I have to, but more capacity does translate into happier bowels.

Now compare poop tank model #B486 to my poorly drawn diagram of the original poop tank.

I don't have the measurements handy for the sideview of the old tank, but it sure seems like #B486 is a winner (or at least comes very close to being identical). It even has the cute little recessed panel for the pumpout and vent ports.
One last dirty picture showing the side of the tank (notice the backlighting):

** 3.24.06 ** A recent post on the Cape Dory board by Scott MacCready seems to indicate that tank #B486 is a direct replacement for the CD30 ketch. Apparently the CD30 is a bit wider at the forward bulkhead! Seems like Cape Dory would have used the early 36 holding tank dimensions for the CD30 as well rather than go to the trouble of having a new mold built.
** 3.27.06 ** #B486 is a direct replacement for CD30s. A Ronco salesperson told me that several CD30 owners went in together a few years back on a run of holding tanks to defray the expense of having a mold made.

Solenoid ordered

I ordered a new starter solenoid from Transatlantic Diesels this afternoon, part number DELSOL 197. Based upon their pictures, it appears as though that is the correct solenoid for my application. I tried to get a confirmation from TAD by providing them with the numbers stamped on the starter, but no dice. Apparently those numbers don't help for cross-referencing. Interesting. The price for the solenoid is $45. A rebuilt starter w/ solenoid runs $245 + $100 core. A brand new starter that fits the Perkins 4.108 can be had for $345. Nice to know.

Original starter - #1107587 8H 14. Certainly these numbers must be useful for something!

Picture from TAD website of starter model STA-6. I'd say this starter is nearly a dead ringer for the original.

Starter motor STA-7 is apparently a replacement for STA-6 and also available from TAD. If money weren't an issue, I'd be tempted to replace the whole thing and go with this baby. It's smaller motor would make the reinstallation much simpler.

Work begins

Doubly blessed is the man who gets his work done and has fun with his son.

Jake played hooky from the babysitter today and spent the day with me working on Ariel. We began by removing the bunk boards in the forward cabin to access the holding tank, which has been leaking despite our best efforts to seal it. The tank now sits in the backyard. I'll confirm measurements tomorrow and place an order with Ronco plastics for a new tank.

The second item on today's 'to do' was to pull the starter. Last summer it began giving us intermittent starting problems, which were easily solved by a firm rap to the solenoid but a pain nonetheless. I managed - with Jake's help - to wiggle the starter out of place without disassembling too much. The whole process did require some contortions and blood, though. Once I receive confirmation from Transatlantic Diesel about the starter model, I'll order a new solenoid and get things back together.

Jake's contributions to the day's activities were precious. At one point, as my face was squashed against the header tank and both arms shoulder deep into the engine, Jake said to me: "You're Percy." "What?!" I replied, completely clueless. "You're Percy," he repeated. "What?!" Exasperated, he said, "You're Dirty Percy!" Those with young kids likely know exactly who Percy is; he's a lovable - if not always clean - engine from the children's program "Thomas the Tank Engine." Obviously my grease-covered arms and hands did make me look a lot like poor old Percy.